Episode 101 - Is God Disappointed in Me? with Kurt Francom
Episode 101 - Is God Disappointed in Me? with Kurt Francom
This week on the podcast, I am sharing my conversation with Kurt Francom. We talk about his new book, Is God Disappointed with Me? Removing Shame From a Gospel of Grace. It is a powerful discussion that includes a message of hope.
You will want to get this book.
Get it HERE.
"Step into the pages of this book and discover a new relationship with a God who waits to shower you with love and approval. If you are a Latter-day Saint, it's time for you to experience the hope, power, and redemption the gospel of Jesus Christ offers."
Kurt is the founder and executive director of Leading Saints, a non-profit organization dedicated to helping Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. The Leading Saints podcast is one of the premier Latter-day Saints podcasts reaching 500,000 downloads each month and a lifetime reach of 20 million total downloads. Kurt is also a #1 best-selling author. Kurt graduated from the University of Utah in 2008 with a degree in Business Marketing. He ran a web development company for 5 years before focusing on Leading Saints full-time in 2016. Kurt currently lives in American Fork, Utah with his lovely wife Alanna. They are blessed to have three children and a dog.
GIVEAWAY:
I just released my 100th podcast episode!!!
I would love you to celebrate with me!
As part of the celebration, I am giving away some fun things to one lucky winner:
* One ticket to the Navigating Midlife with Grace to use or to give to a friend.
* $100 Amazon Gift Card
* 3 Mini Coaching Sessions (30 minutes each)
This is valued at $300!
This is how you can enter to win:
1. Rate and review the Seasons of Joy Podcast on whatever platform you listen on.
2. Take a screenshot of your review and share it on your stories and tag me. Instagram: @seasons_coaching. Facebook: seasons.life.coaching
The winner will be announced Thursday, March 7th!
Mentioned in the podcast:
Is God Disappointed in Me? Removing Shame from a Gospel of Grace
Register HERE for my in-person workshop, Navigating Midlife with Grace: Strengthening Connection with Self, Others, and God. Registration closes March 15.
Are you ready to take what I teach to a deeper level? I would love to be your coach!
Click HERE to schedule a FREE Clarity Call with me to learn more.
Grab my recent Strengthening Your Relationship with God During the Holidays Workshop.
Grab the 5 Day Relationship Reboot Challenge Workbook HERE.
For another great FREE resource, grab my Mending the Rift: Repairing Relationships with Adult Children.
Click on the following links to learn more about Seasons Coaching and my Seasons of Joy Community Facebook Group.
Click HERE to learn more about my Season of Creation 12-Week 1:1 Coaching package.
To contact me about speaking to your group or business, email me at jill@seasons-coaching.com.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast and rate and leave me a review! Help me spread these tools!
Auto Generated Transcription:
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This is Jill Pack with the Seasons of Joy podcast.
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This is episode number 101 entitled,
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is God Disappointed in me with Kurt Franken.
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Are you a woman of faith who is struggling to navigate your current season of life?
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Do you feel like life is just happening to you instead of for you?
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My name is Jill Pack and I'm a certified faith based life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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I want you to know that no matter your season or your circumstance,
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it is possible to create a more joyful life and I would love to show you how are you ready?
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Let's go.
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Hello,
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my friends.
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Welcome to the podcast.
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I'm so excited for this episode.
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I have a great interview that I'm going to be sharing with you today.
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But before I get started,
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I wanted to remind you of two things.
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My podcast giveaway is the first thing and last week I talked about it and I gave all the specifications and I've learned a few things since then,
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when you give a rating or review,
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it isn't instantaneous.
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So it does take some time.
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It takes like a day and a half or two days to show up.
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So this is what I'm going to do.
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I'm extending my giveaway until this Thursday.
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So when you hear this podcast,
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it will be Tuesday,
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March 5th and you have through Thursday afternoon,
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March 7th to send a rating and review.
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But what you'll do differently is when you go to give it a rating and review,
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take a screenshot before you hit submit because once it's submitted,
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it takes again a few days,
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a couple of days at least to um to show up.
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So take a screenshot and then share it to your story,
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whether it be Facebook book or Instagram,
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share that picture of the rating and review that you gave and then tag me if you tag me on Facebook,
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it's at Seasons dot life dot coaching and if it's on Instagram,
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it's at seasons underscore coaching.
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I wish they could be the same,
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but there's other companies with those names.
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So be sure to tag the right name on Facebook and Instagram,
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it just has to be in one of those places.
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But if you tag me,
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then I know that you've done it.
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And once you've taken the screenshot,
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you can submit and then you just share your rating and review on your story.
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That way people can see it.
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I'm trying to spread the word.
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So the giveaway is you can win three things.
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If you are the winner.
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You will win a ticket to my workshop,
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navigating midlife with grace.
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That's going to be on March 23rd.
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You'll win $100 gift card and you'll win three mini sessions,
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coaching sessions with me and we can work out those times that work good for you,
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but you'll get three mini sessions that are 30 minutes each with me where you can see what it's like to coach with me.
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We can work on something that's causing you a problem and hopefully you can gain some clarity and perspective to help you navigate that um the way you want to.
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So that's the first thing.
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The second thing is my workshop that is coming up on March 23rd.
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It's a Saturday.
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It's going to be held in Cash Valley,
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Utah.
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It's going to be amazing.
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I have some guest coaches.
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I have a yoga instructor that's going to be walking us through some mindfulness and restorative yoga practices.
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It's going to be amazing.
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And my hope is that when you leave our time together,
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you're going to be able to navigate the relationships with yourself,
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with others and with God,
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with grace that you can become the creator of your life,
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a life that you love a life on purpose,
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a life of intention.
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So if you want to learn more about that workshop,
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just visit my show notes so you can learn more and that you can register.
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Registration closes Friday,
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March 15th I would love to have you come and join us in person so that we can lift and inspire one another.
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So now on to this week's episode,
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this week,
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I am going to be sharing a conversation that I recently had with Kurt Franken.
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He is the founder and executive director of Leading Saints,
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a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping Latter Day Saints be better prepared to lead.
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He does this by creating content and sharing it with others through workshops and conferences.
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He also has a podcast titled The Leading Saints podcast and it reaches hundreds of thousands of people each month.
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And recently,
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he has released a book that he's written entitled,
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is God disappointed in me removing shame from a Gospel of Grace.
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I reached out to Kirk because I have followed him for a long time and wanted to talk about this book because as I work with clients of all ages,
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this is something that I see.
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There is such a tendency to go to shame when we gain perspective.
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As we gain perspective,
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we learn about maybe things we would like to change or might improve situations in our life or may better align us with our values and the gospel in general.
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But what can happen is when we gain that awareness,
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we can use that against ourselves.
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We can start seeing the gaps between where we are and where we want to go and we go to shame and it's so interesting to see that in the clients that I work with,
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they use this as evidence against themselves that somehow something is wrong with them or something wrong with their life.
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And so as members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints,
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instead of focusing on the hope we focus on that we need to do more or be more or else God will be disappointed in us or that we're doing life wrong.
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So that's why I think this conversation with Kurt is a powerful one.
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So here is my conversation with Kurt Franken.
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Kurt.
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I'm gonna let you introduce yourself a little bit.
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Tell people a little bit more about you if they haven't heard about you.
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Well,
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well,
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thanks Jill.
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I appreciate the,
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the invite to be on,
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on your podcast.
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And um so my background,
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I,
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I grew up in West Valley City,
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Utah,
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just the west side of,
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of Salt Lake Valley.
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And uh I,
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my wife is from Eastern Idaho.
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She grew up on a potato farm and we have three kids.
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We now live in American Fork,
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Utah.
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And um and yeah,
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I run uh leading saints like you,
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you mentioned as a nonprofit organization and,
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and we just create content for Latter Day Saint leaders and it's a lot of fun and I,
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I learned all sorts of things and it led to uh me writing this book.
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And so um most people are probably familiar with my voice uh from the Leading Saints podcast.
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That's sort of the,
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our main flagship uh thing that,
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that,
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that we do that most people are familiar with.
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And so,
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um yeah,
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and I wanted to,
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to write this book around concepts that I kept uh hearing about and,
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and wanting to address.
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And so,
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here we are.
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Yeah.
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Awesome.
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Awesome.
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Before we jump into your book,
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I would love for listeners to hear like,
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what was your motivation behind leading saints?
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Like,
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how did it get started?
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And what is,
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what's your vision with,
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with all of this because it all ties together?
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Right?
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Sure.
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Absolutely.
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So I,
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I was a young church leader that wanted to do a good job,
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right?
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And as many of us do,
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and we're asked to serve in an organization that we believe in and an organization we're passionate about.
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And I,
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I was really struggling with understanding how to be a good leader and I could walk into a bookstore and see bookshelves full of all sorts of research and,
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and perspectives on how to be a good leader in the corporate world or in the family or in the world at large.
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Uh But nobody's really talking about it in the context of the church.
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And so I thought maybe I,
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I know I'm no leadership expert,
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but maybe I can create a platform to bring the experts and interview them and talk through uh certain concerns or um barriers that uh church leaders experience in our faith tradition.
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And so it started as a hobby blog in 2010.
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Then by 2014,
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that's when the podcast started.
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We became a nonprofit.
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In 2016,
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I went full time at that point and I been my full time focus,
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uh,
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for ever since then.
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So,
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um,
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that's,
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that's the general,
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uh,
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abbreviated history.
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Yeah,
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I love it.
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That's so good.
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And I think the thing I love is with all the different people that you bring on.
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Right.
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The,
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the focus is like,
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how can we just show up better?
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It's not about necessarily telling ourselves we've done everything wrong or that we were terrible or whatever,
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but just,
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you know,
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how can we learn from the mistakes or the good things that other people do?
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Like,
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let's just learn all together how to make it better.
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Yeah,
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exactly.
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You know,
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we,
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we don't preach that we have,
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we figured it out or have the,
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you know,
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the five point plan to be a perfect leader by any means.
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But,
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you know,
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like you said,
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it's just interesting to hear what the other guy or gal is doing,
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you know,
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in their similar leadership role and maybe they found some best practices that work and let's broadcast that out to the world and,
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and maybe others can,
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can try those things on for size and if they,
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they work great,
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if not,
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maybe we find somebody else to try something different.
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I love it.
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I love it so much.
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Um OK,
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so let's dive into this book.
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The book is called,
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is God Disappointed in me,
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removing shame from a gospel of Grace.
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And I love the whole title.
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Thank you.
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I think you need all of that really like um give the essence of what it's about.
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So,
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um I,
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I've listened to it where you've talked about this on other podcasts,
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but um correct me if I'm wrong,
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it's,
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this is something you put together as a presentation and kind of been working on for about four years of fine tuning it.
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Yeah,
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it first started out as a,
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I just did a,
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an episode on,
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on the Leading Saints podcast about this concept of disappointment and God and,
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and shame.
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And uh it was just resonating with so many people,
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the analytics were showing,
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uh you know,
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it was just sort of zooming up those charts and got a lot of people reaching out if I could come do a fireside in their,
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their area about this concept.
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And so I thought,
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man,
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maybe there's a,
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I can,
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you know,
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type through some thoughts here and put it into a book.
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And,
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uh and so that's what I did.
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And,
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and you know,
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this concept of shame is something that maybe we don't,
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um we don't talk or talk enough about or sit with in the context of,
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of church because,
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you know,
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there's maybe so many other topics that,
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that uh that take our time and focus.
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But I truly believe that shame is the strongest tool of the adversary um in mortality.
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And if he can,
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if he can begin to help us feel shame,
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then our our divine identity begins to decay.
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And if our divide identity decays,
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then you know,
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the the the adversary can take the week off,
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they can take the the year off because we will begin to turn to sin because we can't reconcile this pain.
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We feel inside when our identity is misconstrued.
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So this shame is such a crucial component to understand.
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And so I wanted to,
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to attempt through this book to articulate what shame is in a,
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in a religious context and,
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and how we can overcome it and turn to a God full of grace,
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hope encouragement.
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Um And it breaks my heart when I see so many individuals uh not just in our church,
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but other faith traditions that,
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that leave God,
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abandon God,
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reject faith because they're so overwhelmed and they feel like they just,
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they just can never live up to the demands and expectations that they feel from,
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from their faith.
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And,
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and to me,
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uh there's somewhere that,
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that those individuals have swallowed a the false doctrine because this gospel should be a redemptive gospel.
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It should be an encouraging gospel and,
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and I truly believe it is,
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you just have to make sure we're,
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we're framing it.
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Right.
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And making sure we,
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we're um recognizing shame for what it is.
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Yeah,
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I love that.
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I think,
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I often say how,
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I mean,
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one of the first songs we learn as a primary kid is I'm a child of God and I don't think that's by chance.
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I think that that is such a core foundational piece of doctrine that everything else builds on.
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And so if that,
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if that's shaky or cracks or falls down,
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it just,
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yeah,
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it just kind of leads to,
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to other things.
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But let's,
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I think it would be a good um thing to talk about is like,
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what is your definition of shame?
300
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How would you define that?
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You know,
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the typical,
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it's almost becoming cliche is,
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you know,
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guilt is when you've done something wrong and shame is when you believe you're something wrong and,
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and those things are helpful,
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but sometimes I wonder if we've used that so much.
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It sort of lost.
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Its meaning has become too cliche.
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Um that I,
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I really focus on shame is when the,
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the,
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your identity is attacked.
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Um or when you feel like you're not worthy of the identity that God has given you.
315
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And when we understand um that that process is happening,
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maybe we can begin to counteract that.
317
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And so a lot of people will assume well,
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yeah,
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shame is,
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is,
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uh you know,
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God doesn't use shame,
323
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but he uses guilt.
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Well,
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I would say he He doesn't use either their,
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their,
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their feelings or experiences we have,
328
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you know,
329
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sometimes I feel guilty,
330
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sometimes I feel shame,
331
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but that doesn't necessarily mean that God is wanting you to feel guilty or wanting you to feel shame.
332
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When we feel guilty.
333
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It's often because we have turned away from our savior and we are maybe turning to other solutions in our life for um to,
334
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to cope.
335
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And when we do that,
336
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we will,
337
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the natural experience of doing that is feeling guilt.
338
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So God isn't necessarily,
339
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you know,
340
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confounding you with this,
341
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with this feeling and making you wanting you to,
342
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to feel this way.
343
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It's just naturally,
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when we turn away from God,
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we will feel guilt and oftentimes that guilt will turn to shape.
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Mhm I love that.
347
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And I think,
348
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um I've talked about this a lot on my podcast too is the idea of repentance.
349
00:14:40.330 --> 00:14:42.109
When we look in the Bible dictionary,
350
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it says a fresh view of God of oneself and of the world.
351
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And,
352
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and it's that turning to God.
353
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So,
354
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yeah,
355
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as when we turn away,
356
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we're gonna feel guilt.
357
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But that repentance is what brings us turning to him in the right direction.
358
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And we're,
359
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we're constantly repenting as every day.
360
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We're,
361
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we're reconciling how we may have missed the mark that day as far as like what parts of my day that I turn to something else for relief,
362
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whether that's,
363
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you know,
364
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a stigmatized sin or whether it's social media or Netflix or eating or whatever it is,
365
00:15:20.049 --> 00:15:23.640
you recognize it for what it is that even though um,
366
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maybe it's not this heavy stigmatized sin that you don't want your neighbor to learn about.
367
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We turn from God all the time and so every day we need to reconcile that and,
368
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and turn back to God and make sure we're always looking to him.
369
00:15:35.020 --> 00:15:37.580
And I think that's the beautiful thing about repentance.
370
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And it's taken me,
371
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I'm 55 and it's taken me a long time to really see repentance as a gift.
372
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And that like we aren't,
373
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most of us aren't just out there sinning like crazy,
374
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these awful creatures,
375
00:15:54.020 --> 00:15:54.239
right?
376
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We're just humans navigating this world.
377
00:15:58.099 --> 00:15:59.229
And so by nature,
378
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we just,
379
00:16:00.390 --> 00:16:01.010
we just,
380
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he's given us this gift to just recalibrate every day.
381
00:16:04.859 --> 00:16:06.169
That's why it's a gift is,
382
00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:06.729
it's like,
383
00:16:06.739 --> 00:16:06.929
yeah,
384
00:16:06.940 --> 00:16:08.469
let's just refocus,
385
00:16:08.479 --> 00:16:09.520
let's just shift.
386
00:16:09.530 --> 00:16:12.609
Let's see where we can realign it.
387
00:16:12.630 --> 00:16:16.289
It's a way to see him not to punish.
388
00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:17.570
Absolutely.
389
00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:17.890
There's no,
390
00:16:17.900 --> 00:16:18.700
there should be,
391
00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:23.190
there's no punishment happening in that repentance process because the savior literally took that,
392
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.840
that punishment and anything um of,
393
00:16:26.849 --> 00:16:26.880
of,
394
00:16:26.890 --> 00:16:29.099
of punishment nature on when he,
395
00:16:29.109 --> 00:16:30.049
when he suffered for us.
396
00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:30.650
So,
397
00:16:30.820 --> 00:16:32.380
um but we have what,
398
00:16:32.390 --> 00:16:38.099
what a gift it is that the savior give us that gift of being able to,
399
00:16:38.109 --> 00:16:41.039
to turn back to God in this very sanctifying process.
400
00:16:41.049 --> 00:16:41.119
Yeah.
401
00:16:41.130 --> 00:16:45.440
And I guess we could say that the problem with shame,
402
00:16:45.789 --> 00:16:46.299
right?
403
00:16:46.309 --> 00:16:50.940
Is it blocks our ability to see Him or I don't know,
404
00:16:50.950 --> 00:16:52.340
how would you articulate that?
405
00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:53.429
Yeah.
406
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:53.729
So the,
407
00:16:53.739 --> 00:16:54.059
the,
408
00:16:54.070 --> 00:16:55.309
the thing with shame is it,
409
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:56.590
it contorts our view of,
410
00:16:56.599 --> 00:16:57.510
of ourselves,
411
00:16:57.520 --> 00:16:58.250
in particular,
412
00:16:58.260 --> 00:16:59.070
not necessarily that of,
413
00:16:59.080 --> 00:16:59.950
of God,
414
00:16:59.960 --> 00:17:00.669
but naturally,
415
00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.349
we think not that we're seeing God in a,
416
00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:04.069
in a negative way,
417
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:04.900
we're seeing ourselves.
418
00:17:04.910 --> 00:17:05.449
And we think I,
419
00:17:05.459 --> 00:17:06.329
I can't,
420
00:17:06.339 --> 00:17:08.510
I can't even look at God because look at who I am,
421
00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:08.939
right?
422
00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:13.640
And so then we retreat from God and we can't reconcile that um that pain,
423
00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:15.069
that woundedness we feel inside.
424
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:19.469
And so we got to cope somehow and that's when we turn to sin uh uh and,
425
00:17:19.479 --> 00:17:23.410
and act out in those ways so that now we can cope with life.
426
00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:26.250
Um But it's in restoring the identity,
427
00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:30.260
not necessarily restoring behaviors because naturally as humans,
428
00:17:30.270 --> 00:17:30.520
we,
429
00:17:30.530 --> 00:17:31.640
we default to thinking,
430
00:17:31.650 --> 00:17:31.750
well,
431
00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.260
I just got to get this behavior right.
432
00:17:33.270 --> 00:17:34.569
If I can get the behavior right,
433
00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:35.670
then I'm back on track,
434
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.000
right?
435
00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:37.359
But we actually have it backwards.
436
00:17:37.369 --> 00:17:38.170
It's about the heart,
437
00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:39.319
it's about identity.
438
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:39.680
We need to,
439
00:17:39.699 --> 00:17:41.319
we need to um reen,
440
00:17:41.329 --> 00:17:41.989
engage in,
441
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.560
in who we are rather than what we've done.
442
00:17:44.569 --> 00:17:49.959
And then naturally those behaviors will take care of themselves because of how we identify.
443
00:17:49.969 --> 00:17:50.130
You know,
444
00:17:50.140 --> 00:17:53.229
we often see the savior um almost like a,
445
00:17:53.239 --> 00:17:56.500
this is a crude way to put it like almost like a harry potter figure,
446
00:17:56.510 --> 00:17:56.660
right?
447
00:17:56.670 --> 00:17:57.650
He was just magic,
448
00:17:57.660 --> 00:17:57.859
right?
449
00:17:57.869 --> 00:17:58.219
He,
450
00:17:58.699 --> 00:18:02.329
he could put mud on blind man's eyes and he could see it was like magic,
451
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:02.660
right?
452
00:18:03.030 --> 00:18:13.150
But in my opinion where the savior got his power was that he knew completely who he was that he was God's only begotten son and,
453
00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:15.369
and acting from that identity,
454
00:18:15.430 --> 00:18:19.099
he was able to do remarkable miracles because of that.
455
00:18:19.459 --> 00:18:19.910
Yeah.
456
00:18:20.089 --> 00:18:21.239
And don't you think like,
457
00:18:21.250 --> 00:18:23.420
i it just came to my mind like,
458
00:18:24.010 --> 00:18:26.930
as we understand who we are,
459
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:29.599
we can actually see God's identity,
460
00:18:30.020 --> 00:18:30.050
right?
461
00:18:30.060 --> 00:18:34.150
It makes him more clear like if I'm this,
462
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.520
then he's that.
463
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:36.910
Yeah.
464
00:18:37.170 --> 00:18:41.229
And then identity begins to manifest itself through us and that's God's glory,
465
00:18:41.239 --> 00:18:41.439
right?
466
00:18:41.449 --> 00:18:43.540
And so oftentimes when I feel like I'm in a,
467
00:18:43.550 --> 00:18:46.839
in a good healthy spot spiritually or with my identity,
468
00:18:47.219 --> 00:18:48.520
things are going well and,
469
00:18:49.300 --> 00:18:49.849
and,
470
00:18:50.030 --> 00:18:51.359
and I feel like I'm just,
471
00:18:51.520 --> 00:18:51.829
I'm,
472
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:52.699
I'm on my game,
473
00:18:52.709 --> 00:18:53.119
you could say,
474
00:18:53.130 --> 00:18:53.339
right?
475
00:18:53.349 --> 00:18:54.280
Like I'm just like,
476
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:55.739
I'm living my life in a,
477
00:18:55.750 --> 00:18:57.930
in a state that is just amazing.
478
00:18:57.939 --> 00:18:58.150
Now,
479
00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:58.959
it's easy.
480
00:18:59.189 --> 00:19:02.420
Our ego and our pride wants to look ourselves in the mirror and think,
481
00:19:02.430 --> 00:19:02.660
wow,
482
00:19:02.670 --> 00:19:03.880
I'm just awesome today.
483
00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:04.510
Look what I'm doing.
484
00:19:04.520 --> 00:19:05.160
But no,
485
00:19:05.170 --> 00:19:06.719
this is the glory of God.
486
00:19:06.729 --> 00:19:10.420
Like God made me look what he made like that's amazing.
487
00:19:10.430 --> 00:19:17.000
And his glory is coming through me as I am as I'm revealing his identity and leaning into that identity that he gave me.
488
00:19:17.010 --> 00:19:17.760
It's beautiful.
489
00:19:17.969 --> 00:19:18.319
Yeah.
490
00:19:18.489 --> 00:19:21.160
And the more we can see that in ourselves,
491
00:19:21.489 --> 00:19:22.430
we can see our,
492
00:19:22.439 --> 00:19:24.530
our brothers and sisters,
493
00:19:24.689 --> 00:19:25.060
right?
494
00:19:25.069 --> 00:19:26.400
They're magnificent that,
495
00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:27.290
that they are,
496
00:19:27.300 --> 00:19:29.599
that God shines through them too like that.
497
00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:32.119
And I talked about this in the end of the book,
498
00:19:32.130 --> 00:19:33.199
The Grace For Grace,
499
00:19:33.209 --> 00:19:35.520
like the more we're able to receive that grace and,
500
00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:37.239
and reveal our divine identity,
501
00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:40.430
we suddenly see everybody for who they actually are around us.
502
00:19:40.439 --> 00:19:43.579
Then it's so much easier to love and have,
503
00:19:43.810 --> 00:19:46.079
have the compassion on other individuals.
504
00:19:46.089 --> 00:19:46.630
And you know,
505
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.109
especially as parents,
506
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:48.310
you know,
507
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:48.390
I'm,
508
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:49.920
I've experienced this all the time.
509
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:51.140
We want to,
510
00:19:51.469 --> 00:19:55.119
we want to address through the behaviors or the expectations.
511
00:19:55.229 --> 00:19:55.750
And we think,
512
00:19:55.760 --> 00:19:55.989
well,
513
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.390
I'm,
514
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:56.579
I'm,
515
00:19:56.589 --> 00:19:57.930
I'm gonna make sure they know I love them,
516
00:19:57.939 --> 00:19:58.650
of course,
517
00:19:58.760 --> 00:20:01.619
but I'm gonna have really high expectations in them because,
518
00:20:01.810 --> 00:20:02.060
you know,
519
00:20:02.069 --> 00:20:02.349
we,
520
00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.469
we gotta make sure that the behaviors are in line here.
521
00:20:04.479 --> 00:20:08.109
But instead if we say I'm gonna give them all the grace I can,
522
00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:12.380
I'm gonna love them completely and I'm going to lead them through identity,
523
00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:16.260
not through expectations and constantly remind them not that hey,
524
00:20:16.270 --> 00:20:16.520
you know,
525
00:20:16.530 --> 00:20:17.219
in this house,
526
00:20:17.229 --> 00:20:21.479
we really expect you to go on a mission or go to college or get a job or you know,
527
00:20:21.489 --> 00:20:22.560
marry in,
528
00:20:22.569 --> 00:20:23.959
in the temple or whatever it is.
529
00:20:23.969 --> 00:20:25.959
But instead we say in this house,
530
00:20:25.969 --> 00:20:27.400
we remember who we are,
531
00:20:27.410 --> 00:20:28.660
we are Children of God.
532
00:20:28.800 --> 00:20:31.920
We have been endowed by a creator from on high with,
533
00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:39.930
with a new identity that we lean into and then suddenly they begin to feel that identity surge within them and the behaviors take care of themselves.
534
00:20:39.939 --> 00:20:44.670
The there's no need for expectation when we act from a place of pure identity.
535
00:20:45.010 --> 00:20:45.339
Yeah,
536
00:20:45.349 --> 00:20:46.270
I love that.
537
00:20:46.369 --> 00:20:48.439
So let's dive into that idea of,
538
00:20:48.609 --> 00:20:50.069
of love and works.
539
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:51.530
You have that pendulum.
540
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:51.979
Oh Yeah,
541
00:20:52.170 --> 00:20:53.729
I love that illustration.
542
00:20:53.739 --> 00:20:55.310
So explain that a little bit.
543
00:20:55.790 --> 00:20:55.949
Yeah,
544
00:20:55.959 --> 00:21:03.989
I called the Gospel Continuum where oftentimes it's hard to understand how does the love and law work together because yeah,
545
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:04.930
I know God loves me,
546
00:21:04.939 --> 00:21:05.390
but man,
547
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:07.150
it sure seems like he's so demanding.
548
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.069
He expects me to do all these things,
549
00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:10.150
all these commandments and,
550
00:21:10.430 --> 00:21:10.770
and,
551
00:21:10.780 --> 00:21:11.790
and I never measure up.
552
00:21:11.800 --> 00:21:14.630
And so how does he love me when I'm not measuring up and well,
553
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.030
wait a minute,
554
00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:17.010
maybe he doesn't love me because I'm not measuring it right.
555
00:21:17.020 --> 00:21:18.579
We kind of get in this trap.
556
00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:21.569
And so I wanted to articulate how these,
557
00:21:22.209 --> 00:21:31.010
how uh love and law or uh grace and commandments and covenants and how they work together in tandem to actually sanctify us.
558
00:21:31.020 --> 00:21:32.579
And so II,
559
00:21:32.589 --> 00:21:35.170
I create this pendulum model that we're,
560
00:21:35.180 --> 00:21:37.619
we're constantly swaying back and forth on this pendulum.
561
00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:40.920
Some days we need to swing over to the love component.
562
00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:41.180
In fact,
563
00:21:41.189 --> 00:21:42.560
this is where the gospel begins.
564
00:21:42.569 --> 00:21:43.420
Some people will say,
565
00:21:43.430 --> 00:21:43.619
you know,
566
00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:45.859
the gospel is just about love and I'd say,
567
00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:46.030
well,
568
00:21:46.040 --> 00:21:46.060
I,
569
00:21:46.069 --> 00:21:46.979
I disagree.
570
00:21:46.989 --> 00:21:49.130
The gospel begins with love.
571
00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:50.209
And once we're in that love,
572
00:21:50.219 --> 00:21:51.699
once we feel that complete grace,
573
00:21:51.709 --> 00:21:54.699
we can't help but turn to God and say,
574
00:21:54.989 --> 00:21:55.510
wow,
575
00:21:55.520 --> 00:21:55.819
like,
576
00:21:56.150 --> 00:21:57.589
how do I become like you?
577
00:21:57.770 --> 00:21:58.329
How do I,
578
00:21:58.339 --> 00:21:59.969
how can I follow you more?
579
00:21:59.979 --> 00:22:02.810
I just am so obsessed with this love that you're giving me.
580
00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:04.390
What can I do?
581
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:04.829
And he's like,
582
00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:04.849
oh,
583
00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:09.119
I'm so glad you asked because I have this list of commandments and covenants as almost a,
584
00:22:09.130 --> 00:22:12.400
a classroom where you can step into and become more like me.
585
00:22:12.410 --> 00:22:13.770
It's a sanctifying process,
586
00:22:13.780 --> 00:22:14.099
right?
587
00:22:14.290 --> 00:22:18.369
But what happens is we often times get stuck on one of these ends of,
588
00:22:18.439 --> 00:22:19.430
of the continuum.
589
00:22:19.439 --> 00:22:23.699
So maybe we get obsessed about check boxes and begin to think.
590
00:22:23.709 --> 00:22:23.750
Well,
591
00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:24.810
I gotta do all the things.
592
00:22:24.819 --> 00:22:26.010
I've got to be a really good mom.
593
00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:27.540
I got really good dad and you know,
594
00:22:27.550 --> 00:22:30.540
I gotta go to the temple five times a week or,
595
00:22:30.550 --> 00:22:30.800
you know,
596
00:22:30.810 --> 00:22:32.819
I gotta make sure I'm doing all these,
597
00:22:32.829 --> 00:22:33.890
these things,
598
00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:34.469
you know,
599
00:22:34.479 --> 00:22:35.030
temple work,
600
00:22:35.040 --> 00:22:35.280
family,
601
00:22:35.290 --> 00:22:35.560
history,
602
00:22:35.569 --> 00:22:35.829
work,
603
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:36.500
missionary work.
604
00:22:36.510 --> 00:22:38.180
I gotta do all the things.
605
00:22:38.189 --> 00:22:40.780
But then we get stuck on the behavior side of that.
606
00:22:40.790 --> 00:22:44.810
And that's not a healthy place to be because uh we'll wear ourselves out.
607
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.500
That's where the exhaustion comes from.
608
00:22:46.829 --> 00:22:48.550
So we have to be got sort of this,
609
00:22:48.560 --> 00:22:52.400
this dance that happens between the love and the commandments.
610
00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:54.040
Some days I need,
611
00:22:54.270 --> 00:22:54.770
I simply,
612
00:22:54.780 --> 00:22:59.900
just need to sit and I may be so exhausted with mortality and the demands of life and,
613
00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:01.770
and trying to be a good dad or,
614
00:23:01.780 --> 00:23:02.449
or whatever it is.
615
00:23:02.459 --> 00:23:05.869
And so some days I just need to be in God's grace,
616
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:06.500
be in his love.
617
00:23:06.510 --> 00:23:12.140
Maybe that's just taking a moment of quiet and listening to a gospel song with,
618
00:23:12.150 --> 00:23:14.040
with powerful lyrics of love or,
619
00:23:14.050 --> 00:23:16.550
or listening to Elder Holland talk that just envelops me in,
620
00:23:16.560 --> 00:23:18.150
in his grace and love.
621
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:19.280
Other days though,
622
00:23:19.290 --> 00:23:24.969
I may need maybe more President Oaks talk and he's really hammering out the doctrinal points of this and that or,
623
00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:25.729
you know,
624
00:23:25.739 --> 00:23:27.619
I'm really digging into my,
625
00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:30.540
my scripture study with journaling and whatever it be.
626
00:23:30.699 --> 00:23:32.160
And so the,
627
00:23:32.170 --> 00:23:35.160
the point being is that we're at different times in,
628
00:23:35.170 --> 00:23:35.439
in,
629
00:23:35.449 --> 00:23:35.829
in our,
630
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:36.290
our lives,
631
00:23:36.300 --> 00:23:38.660
we may need maybe a little bit more other day,
632
00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:39.959
a little bit more of love.
633
00:23:39.969 --> 00:23:40.520
Other days,
634
00:23:40.530 --> 00:23:42.719
we may need a little bit more of commandments and,
635
00:23:42.729 --> 00:23:42.959
and,
636
00:23:42.969 --> 00:23:43.479
and law,
637
00:23:43.489 --> 00:23:43.880
right?
638
00:23:44.150 --> 00:23:46.800
And so we just can't get stuck on this continuum.
639
00:23:46.810 --> 00:23:47.219
And this is,
640
00:23:47.229 --> 00:23:50.189
we know we're repenting when we're going back and forth and the beauty,
641
00:23:50.199 --> 00:23:50.790
the reason I,
642
00:23:50.800 --> 00:23:53.359
I form formulate it into a pendulum,
643
00:23:53.369 --> 00:23:54.680
the higher up in God's love,
644
00:23:54.689 --> 00:23:55.199
we go,
645
00:23:55.640 --> 00:24:01.540
the more momentum we have to swing into his covenant deeper and access a deeper level of understanding.
646
00:24:01.550 --> 00:24:03.489
The more understanding we get in his,
647
00:24:03.510 --> 00:24:04.790
his covenant side,
648
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:11.219
we're actually able to swing back and find deeper love that wasn't accessible to us just as people that were,
649
00:24:11.229 --> 00:24:12.640
that weren't sanctified as,
650
00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:15.209
as we engage in his commandments and covenants,
651
00:24:15.219 --> 00:24:18.140
we become something greater and that,
652
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:19.859
that person,
653
00:24:19.869 --> 00:24:24.660
that eternal being that we become is able to absorb more of God's love.
654
00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:26.540
Not because he was holding it back.
655
00:24:26.589 --> 00:24:29.859
We just were not capable of receiving it before.
656
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:31.420
And so uh II,
657
00:24:31.430 --> 00:24:33.500
I hope that individuals see this and,
658
00:24:33.510 --> 00:24:35.430
and they can give themselves more grace when,
659
00:24:35.780 --> 00:24:37.260
when they do feel that overwhelmed,
660
00:24:37.270 --> 00:24:38.060
they can say,
661
00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:38.079
ah,
662
00:24:38.089 --> 00:24:38.660
you know what?
663
00:24:39.219 --> 00:24:40.300
I just need to take a breath,
664
00:24:40.540 --> 00:24:42.890
reassess and swing back into the love.
665
00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:44.219
I'm just gonna not,
666
00:24:44.229 --> 00:24:52.479
not give myself any expectations with how many verses I'm gonna read today or whether I'm doing this or that I'm just gonna be still and be loved and then other days you think,
667
00:24:52.489 --> 00:24:52.750
OK,
668
00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:53.099
I'm,
669
00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:54.599
I'm ready like I want to,
670
00:24:54.709 --> 00:24:56.400
I want to learn his secrets and,
671
00:24:56.520 --> 00:24:57.459
and dive into his,
672
00:24:57.469 --> 00:24:58.760
his doctrines and gospels.
673
00:24:58.770 --> 00:24:59.589
Let's do that today,
674
00:24:59.599 --> 00:24:59.859
right?
675
00:24:59.869 --> 00:25:03.859
And so just always checking yourself of where you're at on that gospel continuum.
676
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:04.219
Yeah,
677
00:25:04.229 --> 00:25:05.000
I love that.
678
00:25:05.010 --> 00:25:05.459
I love that.
679
00:25:05.469 --> 00:25:11.300
I think that when we find ourselves finding our identity in our works,
680
00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:12.239
right?
681
00:25:12.250 --> 00:25:17.229
That's can cause us that problem to be stuck on that work side,
682
00:25:17.239 --> 00:25:17.750
right?
683
00:25:18.030 --> 00:25:21.300
When we define the check boxes is like,
684
00:25:21.310 --> 00:25:21.380
oh,
685
00:25:21.390 --> 00:25:22.910
I'm good enough because I've,
686
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:24.699
I'm doing all the things,
687
00:25:24.709 --> 00:25:24.989
right?
688
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.709
And so we've lost our identity in the check box.
689
00:25:28.739 --> 00:25:30.989
That's right that our identity is set.
690
00:25:31.010 --> 00:25:33.770
It's completely lovable in this very moment,
691
00:25:33.780 --> 00:25:34.300
just like,
692
00:25:34.479 --> 00:25:34.810
I mean,
693
00:25:34.819 --> 00:25:36.300
that the love of God is set,
694
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:36.729
right?
695
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.680
It's just a matter of us make sure we approach these things we do in,
696
00:25:41.689 --> 00:25:42.640
in the right frame of mind,
697
00:25:42.650 --> 00:25:45.839
not because we're trying to qualify for anything or God's love.
698
00:25:45.849 --> 00:25:48.560
God didn't give us commandments to qualify for anything.
699
00:25:48.760 --> 00:25:49.270
His son,
700
00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:51.979
Jesus Christ removed all qualification.
701
00:25:51.989 --> 00:25:53.650
He qualified for everything.
702
00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:01.959
But now we have this opportunity to be in right relationship with God as we strive to do all the things and keep all the covenants.
703
00:26:02.050 --> 00:26:02.479
Yeah.
704
00:26:02.540 --> 00:26:02.959
Yeah,
705
00:26:02.969 --> 00:26:04.000
I love that so much.
706
00:26:04.010 --> 00:26:08.170
It makes me think of sister Freeman's talk about um the,
707
00:26:08.180 --> 00:26:11.770
the kind of the dual mission of the savior,
708
00:26:11.780 --> 00:26:12.109
right?
709
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:16.239
The mission of ascension and the mission of condescension.
710
00:26:16.709 --> 00:26:17.390
Do I say that?
711
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:17.930
Right?
712
00:26:20.699 --> 00:26:20.859
I,
713
00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:26.650
I always say it wrong condensation or conde you get what you mean?
714
00:26:26.770 --> 00:26:28.280
You're condescension,
715
00:26:28.290 --> 00:26:28.530
right?
716
00:26:28.540 --> 00:26:36.380
Like it's like God came here like Christ came here to suffer all to meet us where we are as we are.
717
00:26:37.089 --> 00:26:40.229
But he doesn't intend to leave us there that way,
718
00:26:40.239 --> 00:26:40.530
right?
719
00:26:40.540 --> 00:26:45.160
He's left us to where he is because he did that.
720
00:26:45.540 --> 00:26:45.650
Yeah.
721
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:49.560
And this is where people maybe sometimes you get a little uncomfortable because there's this feeling,
722
00:26:49.569 --> 00:26:51.459
especially in 2024 of this.
723
00:26:51.719 --> 00:26:51.949
You know,
724
00:26:51.959 --> 00:26:52.150
we,
725
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.010
we don't want to be over condoning of,
726
00:26:54.020 --> 00:26:55.150
of sin or,
727
00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:56.339
or complacency.
728
00:26:56.349 --> 00:26:56.790
And so,
729
00:26:56.800 --> 00:26:57.369
and this is the,
730
00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.609
the paradox of the God that we worship.
731
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:08.400
Um Carl Rogers said it in this way that it's um it's a paradox to consider that when I accept myself just as I am,
732
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:10.459
then I can change.
733
00:27:10.469 --> 00:27:17.310
And I adjust that a little bit for the Savior context of when I realized that Jesus Christ accepts me today just as I am,
734
00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:19.060
even if I never changed again,
735
00:27:19.069 --> 00:27:20.829
he still accepts me just as I am,
736
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.239
then I begin to change.
737
00:27:23.250 --> 00:27:24.430
And we get that so backwards,
738
00:27:24.439 --> 00:27:27.319
we think I gotta change so that he will accept me.
739
00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:27.640
But no,
740
00:27:27.650 --> 00:27:29.020
he accepts you today.
741
00:27:29.040 --> 00:27:29.939
And that's the scary part.
742
00:27:29.949 --> 00:27:32.199
His parents are as loved ones.
743
00:27:32.209 --> 00:27:32.439
We think,
744
00:27:32.449 --> 00:27:32.810
well,
745
00:27:33.280 --> 00:27:35.060
if they know we accept them today,
746
00:27:35.069 --> 00:27:35.819
they'll never change.
747
00:27:35.829 --> 00:27:36.160
Like no,
748
00:27:36.170 --> 00:27:36.219
no,
749
00:27:36.229 --> 00:27:37.489
that's the paradox of it.
750
00:27:37.750 --> 00:27:38.510
If they know you,
751
00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:38.739
they,
752
00:27:39.030 --> 00:27:40.939
they are accepted today,
753
00:27:40.949 --> 00:27:41.180
right?
754
00:27:41.189 --> 00:27:41.969
As they are,
755
00:27:42.150 --> 00:27:43.650
then they'll want to change.
756
00:27:44.550 --> 00:27:44.699
Yeah.
757
00:27:44.709 --> 00:27:45.780
It's the beautiful,
758
00:27:45.790 --> 00:27:47.939
it's the beautiful way of the gospel.
759
00:27:47.979 --> 00:27:48.500
I love that.
760
00:27:48.510 --> 00:27:55.750
I love the story that you give in the book about when you really recognize this for yourself.
761
00:27:55.760 --> 00:27:56.660
Maybe share that.
762
00:27:56.670 --> 00:27:57.680
I love that story.
763
00:27:58.170 --> 00:27:58.339
Yeah.
764
00:27:58.349 --> 00:27:59.050
So I mean,
765
00:27:59.060 --> 00:28:00.780
it's just in mortality and growing up,
766
00:28:00.790 --> 00:28:00.979
you know,
767
00:28:00.989 --> 00:28:01.589
I,
768
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:03.109
I was,
769
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:03.130
I,
770
00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:08.000
I didn't experience any traumatic trauma as a young child or,
771
00:28:08.060 --> 00:28:08.189
you know,
772
00:28:08.199 --> 00:28:10.630
I grew up in great family or very religious family,
773
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.069
but somewhere along the way,
774
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.390
I got this message of,
775
00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:14.589
you know,
776
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:18.239
there's certain expectations you got to live up to in order to be accepted.
777
00:28:18.520 --> 00:28:18.530
Uh,
778
00:28:18.540 --> 00:28:18.849
you know,
779
00:28:18.859 --> 00:28:20.069
I remember my parents,
780
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:20.339
uh,
781
00:28:20.349 --> 00:28:20.380
or,
782
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.479
or people telling my parents that,
783
00:28:22.489 --> 00:28:22.670
wow,
784
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.079
your kids are just so good,
785
00:28:24.089 --> 00:28:24.300
you know,
786
00:28:24.310 --> 00:28:25.229
they're always,
787
00:28:25.239 --> 00:28:25.250
uh,
788
00:28:25.260 --> 00:28:27.819
behaving well and they're performing well in school.
789
00:28:27.829 --> 00:28:30.760
And so I was hearing these things and interpreting in my mind of like,
790
00:28:30.770 --> 00:28:31.069
oh,
791
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:35.420
like I have to perform at a certain level in order to be accepted.
792
00:28:35.540 --> 00:28:36.530
And this persisted.
793
00:28:36.540 --> 00:28:36.750
I mean,
794
00:28:36.760 --> 00:28:37.310
even today,
795
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:37.510
I mean,
796
00:28:37.520 --> 00:28:38.150
it's mortality.
797
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:39.819
It's not like I figured it out and these don't,
798
00:28:39.829 --> 00:28:40.939
these don't plague me.
799
00:28:41.010 --> 00:28:44.069
Um That uh even today I'll,
800
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:44.290
you know,
801
00:28:44.300 --> 00:28:45.630
I cast myself in this like,
802
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:46.010
oh man,
803
00:28:46.020 --> 00:28:46.569
I haven't,
804
00:28:46.579 --> 00:28:51.410
I haven't really read my scriptures or engaged in any gospel activity in the last few days.
805
00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:51.589
Like,
806
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:52.390
what's wrong with me?
807
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.089
Like I gotta,
808
00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:53.339
OK,
809
00:28:53.349 --> 00:28:54.739
I gotta really get this down.
810
00:28:54.750 --> 00:28:56.140
I'm gonna triple down my efforts and,
811
00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:57.280
and make sure this happens.
812
00:28:57.550 --> 00:29:01.819
And it's like there's this uh short season in,
813
00:29:01.829 --> 00:29:04.859
in my life where I was really struggling with just the,
814
00:29:05.420 --> 00:29:07.020
the routines of the gospel,
815
00:29:07.030 --> 00:29:07.339
you know,
816
00:29:07.349 --> 00:29:08.469
studying the scriptures,
817
00:29:08.479 --> 00:29:10.520
having meaningful prayer at temple attendance,
818
00:29:10.530 --> 00:29:11.239
whatever it be.
819
00:29:11.449 --> 00:29:17.030
And um I just couldn't figure this out and uh it became very discouraging because I thought,
820
00:29:17.040 --> 00:29:17.270
man,
821
00:29:17.280 --> 00:29:17.510
I'm a,
822
00:29:17.520 --> 00:29:18.449
I'm a good guy.
823
00:29:18.459 --> 00:29:19.420
Like I,
824
00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:19.640
you know,
825
00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:19.910
I'm,
826
00:29:19.949 --> 00:29:20.060
I'm,
827
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:25.619
I'm somebody who's well respected in my faith community and I should know how to do these things.
828
00:29:25.630 --> 00:29:27.390
And that's where the shame messages entered.
829
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:27.739
Right?
830
00:29:27.930 --> 00:29:31.469
And I remember I was at a uh and a Christian retreat,
831
00:29:32.250 --> 00:29:34.459
non denominational uh thing and,
832
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.829
and uh I was sitting there before a session started and they were just,
833
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.750
they just had some gospel music playing just sort of a time for meditation.
834
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:48.189
And uh it became just a transformational experience for me as I sat there listening to music.
835
00:29:48.369 --> 00:29:49.189
And it's as if my,
836
00:29:49.199 --> 00:29:59.270
the savior himself came and sat by me and it just this beautiful grace moment where in my mind I heard you could never read your scriptures again and I'd still love you.
837
00:29:59.869 --> 00:30:02.390
And it totally took me off guard that it,
838
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.130
they came again.
839
00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:07.650
You could never read your scriptures again and I'd still love you.
840
00:30:07.770 --> 00:30:08.410
And it was this,
841
00:30:08.420 --> 00:30:15.910
this grace moment where I had no other choice but to sit in his grace and his complete acceptance and uh so overwhelming,
842
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.099
so healing uh almost like that,
843
00:30:18.109 --> 00:30:27.729
that little boy who was always trying to qualify for people's love was finally told that now you have the love all along and uh so transformational that,
844
00:30:28.209 --> 00:30:28.599
you know,
845
00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:29.959
I just can't help but,
846
00:30:29.969 --> 00:30:33.050
but follow and chase that type of God.
847
00:30:33.060 --> 00:30:33.780
Like I want,
848
00:30:33.790 --> 00:30:36.770
I want relationship with that God who,
849
00:30:36.780 --> 00:30:37.130
who,
850
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:39.530
who shovels out grace like that.
851
00:30:39.869 --> 00:30:41.369
And so um that,
852
00:30:41.380 --> 00:30:41.680
I mean,
853
00:30:41.689 --> 00:30:42.410
that's the power of,
854
00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:44.469
of grace can be so transformational.
855
00:30:44.479 --> 00:30:45.760
Mhm I love that.
856
00:30:46.109 --> 00:30:46.449
And it,
857
00:30:46.459 --> 00:30:48.170
it reminded me of the rest of,
858
00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:51.130
of this quote from Emily Freeman was,
859
00:30:51.439 --> 00:30:53.290
it's not so much the course,
860
00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:54.910
but the companion.
861
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:55.609
Yeah.
862
00:30:55.949 --> 00:30:56.349
Right.
863
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:56.839
Like,
864
00:30:56.869 --> 00:31:02.099
like sometimes we get so caught up in the straight and narrow path which is good and,
865
00:31:02.219 --> 00:31:03.810
and it keeps us safe and,
866
00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:05.569
and pointed to him.
867
00:31:05.910 --> 00:31:08.359
But when we're so concerned with the path,
868
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:10.849
we lose sight of the companion,
869
00:31:11.439 --> 00:31:14.439
that's the good news of the gospel is we have a companion,
870
00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:16.290
do this alone.
871
00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:16.790
Yeah.
872
00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:17.189
You know,
873
00:31:17.199 --> 00:31:17.699
there's this,
874
00:31:17.709 --> 00:31:17.829
I,
875
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.910
I came across this really inspiring translation of the word righteousness,
876
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:23.400
which is all over in our scriptures,
877
00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:23.910
right?
878
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:24.599
Uh I mean,
879
00:31:24.609 --> 00:31:27.000
righteousness is everywhere you go to the top of the guide.
880
00:31:27.010 --> 00:31:30.119
And there's this scripture after scripture using this term righteousness.
881
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:32.500
And uh we can interpret in a modern day sense,
882
00:31:32.510 --> 00:31:35.810
this concept of righteousness is almost near perfection like,
883
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:35.979
oh,
884
00:31:35.989 --> 00:31:37.359
that person is righteous,
885
00:31:37.369 --> 00:31:41.750
almost like they figured out mortality like they do everything pretty much right now.
886
00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:42.890
We realize they're not perfect,
887
00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:43.930
but they're pretty close.
888
00:31:44.209 --> 00:31:46.199
But this uh Hebrew translation of right,
889
00:31:46.285 --> 00:31:49.984
this is a right relationship and it's a fun activity,
890
00:31:49.994 --> 00:31:52.305
go through the scriptures and find every place,
891
00:31:52.314 --> 00:31:57.464
maybe a handful of scriptures where it has the word righteousness and replace it for right relationship.
892
00:31:57.734 --> 00:31:59.255
And in our,
893
00:31:59.265 --> 00:32:00.474
in our latter sa context,
894
00:32:00.484 --> 00:32:02.295
we have such a deep theology of,
895
00:32:02.375 --> 00:32:04.744
of being in a relationship.
896
00:32:04.755 --> 00:32:04.984
We,
897
00:32:04.994 --> 00:32:13.385
we literally go to temples to have a ceremonial act of a right to step into a right relationship with God.
898
00:32:13.719 --> 00:32:17.050
Um And so whenever I'm considering,
899
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:18.040
am I,
900
00:32:18.050 --> 00:32:19.180
am I being righteous?
901
00:32:19.189 --> 00:32:20.849
I remem remind myself,
902
00:32:20.859 --> 00:32:23.069
am I maintaining a right relationship?
903
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:23.380
Yeah.
904
00:32:23.390 --> 00:32:24.459
Like every day I'm,
905
00:32:24.819 --> 00:32:26.819
I'm reconciling those missteps.
906
00:32:26.829 --> 00:32:27.339
So those times,
907
00:32:27.349 --> 00:32:29.319
maybe I turned a little bit away from God or,
908
00:32:29.329 --> 00:32:32.930
or look for another source for relief and realizing.
909
00:32:32.939 --> 00:32:32.949
Oh,
910
00:32:32.959 --> 00:32:33.180
no,
911
00:32:33.189 --> 00:32:35.569
I want to maintain my righteousness,
912
00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:37.339
my right relationship with God.
913
00:32:37.989 --> 00:32:39.579
And even when I mess up,
914
00:32:39.589 --> 00:32:40.680
even when I sin,
915
00:32:40.750 --> 00:32:44.869
I'm still in that right relationship and that's the beauty that allows me to correct.
916
00:32:45.099 --> 00:32:45.369
Yeah,
917
00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:47.130
I love that definition.
918
00:32:47.510 --> 00:32:47.859
Um,
919
00:32:47.869 --> 00:32:52.949
because for a long time that's like I would come back around to that idea of righteousness.
920
00:32:52.959 --> 00:32:53.380
Like,
921
00:32:53.729 --> 00:32:56.469
what does that even mean the righteous will be saved or what?
922
00:32:56.479 --> 00:32:56.890
You know,
923
00:32:56.900 --> 00:32:57.369
and you're like,
924
00:32:58.140 --> 00:32:59.349
I don't think I'm there.
925
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:00.800
I don't think I'm that.
926
00:33:01.290 --> 00:33:02.130
So,
927
00:33:02.260 --> 00:33:03.359
so I'm lost.
928
00:33:04.150 --> 00:33:04.489
But,
929
00:33:05.449 --> 00:33:05.930
yeah,
930
00:33:05.939 --> 00:33:07.229
but I love that idea.
931
00:33:07.239 --> 00:33:07.719
It's just,
932
00:33:07.729 --> 00:33:09.560
it's about relationship and I,
933
00:33:09.569 --> 00:33:10.520
I don't know,
934
00:33:10.530 --> 00:33:19.910
I just think the older I've gotten like that just feels so true to me that it's about building a relationship with,
935
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.449
with Heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ.
936
00:33:22.459 --> 00:33:22.680
Like,
937
00:33:22.689 --> 00:33:28.079
that's the point of all of this building that relationship.
938
00:33:28.089 --> 00:33:29.479
Even when we mess up,
939
00:33:30.209 --> 00:33:31.410
even when we,
940
00:33:31.420 --> 00:33:33.880
we sin or fall short in some way,
941
00:33:33.890 --> 00:33:34.150
it,
942
00:33:34.369 --> 00:33:37.280
it doesn't have to change our relationship.
943
00:33:37.790 --> 00:33:38.000
Yeah.
944
00:33:38.010 --> 00:33:38.739
So true.
945
00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:39.239
So true.
946
00:33:39.329 --> 00:33:39.680
Yeah.
947
00:33:39.689 --> 00:33:40.400
I love that.
948
00:33:40.670 --> 00:33:43.359
Um I wanted to,
949
00:33:43.369 --> 00:33:49.510
I would love for you to explain a little bit what you mean by is God disappointed in me.
950
00:33:51.510 --> 00:33:51.660
Yeah.
951
00:33:51.670 --> 00:33:52.530
Disappointment is,
952
00:33:52.540 --> 00:33:54.050
is a charge term,
953
00:33:54.060 --> 00:33:54.339
right?
954
00:33:54.349 --> 00:33:54.369
Yeah.
955
00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:57.359
I think even from a like you mentioned at a young age,
956
00:33:57.369 --> 00:34:01.520
one of the first songs we learned as I am a child of God that in,
957
00:34:01.530 --> 00:34:03.300
in nursery classes in primary,
958
00:34:03.310 --> 00:34:04.839
we're learning that.
959
00:34:04.869 --> 00:34:05.119
Yeah,
960
00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:06.280
God loves you.
961
00:34:06.290 --> 00:34:06.839
And in fact,
962
00:34:06.849 --> 00:34:07.819
I would even go so far to see,
963
00:34:07.829 --> 00:34:15.040
even the adversary himself wants you to believe that you are loved by God because if he can convince you of that,
964
00:34:15.050 --> 00:34:16.840
then he can convince you that.
965
00:34:16.959 --> 00:34:16.969
Ah,
966
00:34:16.979 --> 00:34:19.449
and he's sure disappointed in you.
967
00:34:19.459 --> 00:34:21.239
And even growing up,
968
00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:22.590
I remember that feeling of,
969
00:34:22.600 --> 00:34:25.459
I don't really mind if you know,
970
00:34:25.469 --> 00:34:25.830
I,
971
00:34:26.908 --> 00:34:30.809
a stranger is disappointed in me or angry at me or mad at me.
972
00:34:31.049 --> 00:34:35.388
But if my mom was disappointed in me or my dad or my brother or sister like that,
973
00:34:35.398 --> 00:34:37.039
it just stung that much deeper.
974
00:34:37.049 --> 00:34:42.168
And so that's another component of shame is it's passed through relationship.
975
00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:43.020
And,
976
00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:43.379
um,
977
00:34:43.389 --> 00:34:48.320
we have to recognize that that when we believe that God is disappointed in us,
978
00:34:48.330 --> 00:34:51.679
that is a transfer of shame through a relationship.
979
00:34:51.689 --> 00:35:01.199
And so that's why I wanted to focus so much on that component of disappointment because disappointment is the transfer of shame and that the more the deeper the relationship,
980
00:35:01.209 --> 00:35:03.439
the stronger the love and you know,
981
00:35:03.449 --> 00:35:04.560
I think we all agree that,
982
00:35:04.570 --> 00:35:10.550
that love that comes from God is the strongest if disappointments entered inserted there.
983
00:35:10.620 --> 00:35:10.949
That,
984
00:35:10.959 --> 00:35:13.689
that makes it all the more shameful of an experience.
985
00:35:14.550 --> 00:35:14.780
Yeah,
986
00:35:14.790 --> 00:35:16.010
that's so beautiful.
987
00:35:16.020 --> 00:35:19.320
And then you touch on in the book a little bit about how,
988
00:35:19.659 --> 00:35:20.010
you know,
989
00:35:20.020 --> 00:35:22.949
can God really be disappointed in us?
990
00:35:23.010 --> 00:35:23.239
Yeah.
991
00:35:24.040 --> 00:35:24.219
Yeah.
992
00:35:24.229 --> 00:35:25.139
This is just sort of a,
993
00:35:25.149 --> 00:35:27.090
a fun thought experiment because,
994
00:35:27.100 --> 00:35:27.290
um,
995
00:35:28.419 --> 00:35:29.360
like it is,
996
00:35:29.370 --> 00:35:29.949
you know,
997
00:35:30.270 --> 00:35:31.429
in our faith tradition,
998
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.350
um There's a lot that,
999
00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:35.949
that,
1000
00:35:35.959 --> 00:35:37.330
that's quite different than maybe the,
1001
00:35:37.340 --> 00:35:40.219
the traditional Christian evangelical uh belief.
1002
00:35:40.229 --> 00:35:40.370
You know,
1003
00:35:40.379 --> 00:35:40.729
we,
1004
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.179
we literally believe we have AAA God,
1005
00:35:44.189 --> 00:35:46.830
a heavenly father in a physical body.
1006
00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:47.750
He looks like us.
1007
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:48.290
He has,
1008
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:48.520
you know,
1009
00:35:48.530 --> 00:35:50.949
fingernails eyebrows and,
1010
00:35:51.139 --> 00:35:53.330
and so then we begin to project everything on him.
1011
00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:53.540
Well,
1012
00:35:53.550 --> 00:35:57.820
he must be happy some days and sad the other days and he uh you know,
1013
00:35:57.830 --> 00:35:58.830
I get grumpy sometimes.
1014
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:00.479
So maybe God gets grumpy sometimes or,
1015
00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:02.179
or I'm really disappointed in my,
1016
00:36:02.189 --> 00:36:02.959
in my Children.
1017
00:36:02.969 --> 00:36:05.610
So God must be disappointed in his Children from time to time.
1018
00:36:05.620 --> 00:36:08.739
So we sometimes over project too much onto him.
1019
00:36:08.830 --> 00:36:09.479
And again,
1020
00:36:09.489 --> 00:36:11.590
this is where that the shame begins to bubble up.
1021
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:12.320
Now,
1022
00:36:13.419 --> 00:36:14.479
if we,
1023
00:36:14.489 --> 00:36:15.120
we know,
1024
00:36:15.129 --> 00:36:15.639
you know,
1025
00:36:15.649 --> 00:36:18.129
some may frame God that God is all knowing.
1026
00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:18.340
Now,
1027
00:36:18.350 --> 00:36:18.979
this is some,
1028
00:36:18.989 --> 00:36:20.389
some but some,
1029
00:36:20.399 --> 00:36:25.439
somewhat of a theological debate still is God really all knowing that does he really know,
1030
00:36:25.620 --> 00:36:25.840
you know,
1031
00:36:25.850 --> 00:36:27.969
that you're gonna order salami on your sandwich tomorrow.
1032
00:36:27.979 --> 00:36:28.459
I don't know.
1033
00:36:28.699 --> 00:36:35.120
But even if he's not consider the testimony that God has about his son,
1034
00:36:35.129 --> 00:36:36.120
Jesus Christ,
1035
00:36:36.270 --> 00:36:37.370
he didn't send his son.
1036
00:36:37.379 --> 00:36:39.469
And now he's like crossing his fingers thinking,
1037
00:36:39.659 --> 00:36:41.739
I hope this plan works like,
1038
00:36:42.050 --> 00:36:42.290
you know,
1039
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:43.770
just throwing that hail Mary,
1040
00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:43.929
you know,
1041
00:36:43.939 --> 00:36:45.290
hoping that that it works.
1042
00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:45.530
No,
1043
00:36:45.540 --> 00:36:47.040
like it works.
1044
00:36:47.050 --> 00:36:47.949
It's over,
1045
00:36:47.959 --> 00:36:51.290
it's done like the scoreboard is set and,
1046
00:36:51.469 --> 00:36:53.709
and we just have to receive it.
1047
00:36:53.909 --> 00:36:59.600
And so God does not have the capacity to be disappointed in us because there's,
1048
00:36:59.610 --> 00:37:04.100
there's no more expectation left like Jesus took it all 100% you know,
1049
00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:06.899
his grace is sufficient.
1050
00:37:07.290 --> 00:37:09.020
And so the expectation is gone.
1051
00:37:09.580 --> 00:37:18.219
And so there's no need of worrying about if is God really in this heavenly living room pacing around just like pulling out his hair thing.
1052
00:37:18.229 --> 00:37:19.209
I can't believe,
1053
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:19.949
you know,
1054
00:37:19.959 --> 00:37:21.800
the Kirk keeps messing up like this,
1055
00:37:21.810 --> 00:37:22.030
you know,
1056
00:37:22.040 --> 00:37:23.270
it doesn't even know the commandments.
1057
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:23.530
And,
1058
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:24.050
and again,
1059
00:37:24.060 --> 00:37:26.389
that's where the shame begins to be transferred.
1060
00:37:26.560 --> 00:37:26.879
But no,
1061
00:37:26.889 --> 00:37:27.429
God,
1062
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:29.820
God is not worried about how this ends.
1063
00:37:29.830 --> 00:37:31.750
And I give an example in the book where I,
1064
00:37:31.790 --> 00:37:31.979
you know,
1065
00:37:31.989 --> 00:37:33.350
I'm a big BYU fan.
1066
00:37:33.620 --> 00:37:34.649
I love watching their,
1067
00:37:34.659 --> 00:37:35.689
their football games.
1068
00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:38.469
There's one game pretty big game I was excited to see,
1069
00:37:38.479 --> 00:37:40.500
but I'd be out of town even off the grid.
1070
00:37:41.250 --> 00:37:42.830
And so I wasn't gonna have time to,
1071
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.409
to see it,
1072
00:37:43.419 --> 00:37:47.840
but I was gonna record it and watch it when I returned home and on my travels back home,
1073
00:37:47.850 --> 00:37:49.350
I just glanced at the score to see.
1074
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:49.510
Oh,
1075
00:37:49.520 --> 00:37:49.909
wow.
1076
00:37:49.919 --> 00:37:51.760
BYU won in overtime.
1077
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:58.399
And it was an interesting experience going home and watching this football game from a state of all knowing that when a,
1078
00:37:58.409 --> 00:38:00.590
when a pass was dropped or,
1079
00:38:01.090 --> 00:38:01.100
uh,
1080
00:38:01.129 --> 00:38:02.600
loss of yardage,
1081
00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:03.120
I didn't,
1082
00:38:03.129 --> 00:38:03.870
I didn't sweat it.
1083
00:38:03.879 --> 00:38:04.350
I was just like,
1084
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:04.610
well,
1085
00:38:04.620 --> 00:38:05.820
they pull it out in the end.
1086
00:38:05.830 --> 00:38:05.850
I,
1087
00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:11.030
I know how this ends and it was a completely different experience with no expectation,
1088
00:38:11.129 --> 00:38:14.000
no disappointment because I knew that they won in the end.
1089
00:38:14.010 --> 00:38:14.810
And sure enough,
1090
00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:15.979
they won in the end.
1091
00:38:15.989 --> 00:38:21.070
And so God isn't hoping that his son's atonement worked,
1092
00:38:21.100 --> 00:38:21.679
it worked.
1093
00:38:21.689 --> 00:38:23.360
He knows it worked and he will,
1094
00:38:23.370 --> 00:38:25.560
he will bear a strong firm testimony that,
1095
00:38:25.889 --> 00:38:26.179
yeah,
1096
00:38:26.189 --> 00:38:29.780
we're fine guys just turn to Jesus like that's all you got to do.
1097
00:38:29.790 --> 00:38:33.360
And if you're not willing to turn today to Jesus,
1098
00:38:33.370 --> 00:38:34.739
I come back tomorrow and he's,
1099
00:38:34.750 --> 00:38:35.860
it's such a long game,
1100
00:38:35.870 --> 00:38:36.229
right?
1101
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.560
And he has eternity to work with here that we will,
1102
00:38:40.169 --> 00:38:41.739
he will win us over.
1103
00:38:41.770 --> 00:38:42.620
Absolutely.
1104
00:38:42.629 --> 00:38:42.760
And,
1105
00:38:42.770 --> 00:38:44.439
and there's no reason to,
1106
00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:46.889
to beat ourselves up when we make those mistakes or,
1107
00:38:46.899 --> 00:38:49.439
or wallow in that shame because there's no shame there.
1108
00:38:49.510 --> 00:38:53.580
Christ fulfilled all expectation where the game's over.
1109
00:38:53.590 --> 00:38:53.780
We,
1110
00:38:53.790 --> 00:38:54.139
we,
1111
00:38:54.149 --> 00:38:54.739
we won.
1112
00:38:54.850 --> 00:38:55.689
Christ won.
1113
00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:56.459
Yeah,
1114
00:38:56.469 --> 00:38:57.770
I love that so much.
1115
00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.379
I think that's such a good analogy.
1116
00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:01.949
I um it makes me think of,
1117
00:39:02.340 --> 00:39:03.010
um,
1118
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:04.500
this idea of,
1119
00:39:04.820 --> 00:39:06.530
I don't know when I was growing up,
1120
00:39:06.919 --> 00:39:13.820
I think somewhere I got the idea that Christ was the backup plan and,
1121
00:39:13.830 --> 00:39:16.500
and we've heard more about that in recent time,
1122
00:39:16.510 --> 00:39:18.139
but I just remember thinking,
1123
00:39:18.149 --> 00:39:18.570
well,
1124
00:39:18.580 --> 00:39:22.939
in case I goof up then I've got the savior.
1125
00:39:22.949 --> 00:39:23.530
Right.
1126
00:39:23.540 --> 00:39:24.070
And it's like,
1127
00:39:24.080 --> 00:39:24.090
oh,
1128
00:39:24.100 --> 00:39:25.879
I got to turn to the savior again.
1129
00:39:25.889 --> 00:39:26.250
I gotta,
1130
00:39:26.419 --> 00:39:28.120
I gotta access the atonement.
1131
00:39:28.129 --> 00:39:30.649
Like it's this horrible thing or like that,
1132
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:36.270
it was an afterthought and it's like it really over the last few years,
1133
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:38.600
it's just really solidified in my mind.
1134
00:39:38.610 --> 00:39:39.110
It's like,
1135
00:39:39.550 --> 00:39:39.760
no,
1136
00:39:39.770 --> 00:39:43.080
Jesus was always the plan.
1137
00:39:43.870 --> 00:39:44.110
It's,
1138
00:39:44.120 --> 00:39:45.580
it's not a backup plan.
1139
00:39:45.590 --> 00:39:47.030
It's not just in case,
1140
00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:53.899
it's like Jesus was the plan and the plan was he'd come and do this and win the game just like you said,
1141
00:39:53.909 --> 00:39:57.189
like that was always the plan that we would win and,
1142
00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:58.860
and it's come to fruition.
1143
00:39:59.050 --> 00:39:59.699
And now,
1144
00:39:59.709 --> 00:40:00.300
like you said,
1145
00:40:00.310 --> 00:40:02.629
we've just got turn to him.
1146
00:40:02.729 --> 00:40:03.989
That's all that's required.
1147
00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:04.219
Yeah,
1148
00:40:04.229 --> 00:40:05.060
absolutely.
1149
00:40:05.070 --> 00:40:05.179
And,
1150
00:40:05.189 --> 00:40:05.790
and I love this,
1151
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:07.199
this verse in Doctor Coven.
1152
00:40:07.209 --> 00:40:07.780
It's 10,
1153
00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:09.050
verse 67.
1154
00:40:09.060 --> 00:40:11.780
I referenced this in a book that it says,
1155
00:40:11.790 --> 00:40:12.159
behold,
1156
00:40:12.169 --> 00:40:13.199
this is my doctrine like,
1157
00:40:13.209 --> 00:40:13.409
OK,
1158
00:40:13.419 --> 00:40:14.939
Christ is,
1159
00:40:14.949 --> 00:40:17.370
is about to tell us what the doctrine is.
1160
00:40:17.530 --> 00:40:18.510
And he says,
1161
00:40:18.530 --> 00:40:23.760
whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me the same as my church.
1162
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:25.169
And then the next he goes,
1163
00:40:25.179 --> 00:40:26.669
he triples down the next verse,
1164
00:40:26.729 --> 00:40:27.719
whosoever,
1165
00:40:27.729 --> 00:40:28.120
declare,
1166
00:40:28.129 --> 00:40:30.780
declare more or less than this.
1167
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:32.419
The same is not of me,
1168
00:40:32.429 --> 00:40:33.379
but is against me.
1169
00:40:33.699 --> 00:40:34.120
Therefore,
1170
00:40:34.129 --> 00:40:35.360
he is not of my church.
1171
00:40:35.409 --> 00:40:35.760
I mean,
1172
00:40:35.770 --> 00:40:36.229
so this is,
1173
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.000
that's the gospel to repent and turn to Jesus.
1174
00:40:39.010 --> 00:40:39.679
That's it.
1175
00:40:39.689 --> 00:40:40.159
That's it.
1176
00:40:40.169 --> 00:40:41.659
And so it is the plan.
1177
00:40:41.669 --> 00:40:42.639
It's at the core of it.
1178
00:40:42.649 --> 00:40:43.899
We've been given like you said,
1179
00:40:43.909 --> 00:40:45.959
this gift of repentance.
1180
00:40:46.290 --> 00:40:51.600
Um It's a divine gift and it's there as many times as we need it.
1181
00:40:51.699 --> 00:40:52.479
And that's a beauty.
1182
00:40:52.489 --> 00:40:53.399
I love the,
1183
00:40:53.419 --> 00:40:56.090
the uh symbolism of the,
1184
00:40:56.100 --> 00:40:57.719
the deacon passing Sacrament,
1185
00:40:57.729 --> 00:40:58.870
the sacrament on Sunday,
1186
00:40:58.879 --> 00:40:59.209
right?
1187
00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:01.020
The bishop never stands up and says,
1188
00:41:01.030 --> 00:41:01.219
hey,
1189
00:41:01.229 --> 00:41:06.030
just by re ans and everybody have an OK week like we could probably just skip the sacrament,
1190
00:41:06.040 --> 00:41:06.469
right?
1191
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:08.790
Um No,
1192
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:09.770
like you would never do that.
1193
00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:10.040
It's the,
1194
00:41:10.050 --> 00:41:11.250
it's the pinnacle of that,
1195
00:41:11.260 --> 00:41:12.510
that meeting of that day.
1196
00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:14.179
Uh Nor does the,
1197
00:41:14.189 --> 00:41:18.070
the deacon walk up to you and when you have to take the bread or water again,
1198
00:41:18.080 --> 00:41:21.620
it doesn't roll your eyes and think really you like we're doing this again.
1199
00:41:21.629 --> 00:41:25.189
You were just here seven days ago and you have to take the sacrament again.
1200
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:25.429
No,
1201
00:41:25.439 --> 00:41:25.669
no.
1202
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:27.389
That's the beauty of grace.
1203
00:41:27.399 --> 00:41:30.939
Like as many times as we need to do this repentance thing you do,
1204
00:41:30.949 --> 00:41:32.270
it just don't quit.
1205
00:41:32.729 --> 00:41:33.129
Yeah.
1206
00:41:33.600 --> 00:41:34.060
Well,
1207
00:41:34.070 --> 00:41:37.949
I could talk about your book forever because it's so good and I just,
1208
00:41:37.959 --> 00:41:41.629
I really think that it's such a key.
1209
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:43.530
It's a key thing.
1210
00:41:43.540 --> 00:41:50.850
This the shame that we can put upon ourselves and that the adversary is really thrilled when we go there.
1211
00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:51.739
I think that,
1212
00:41:51.750 --> 00:42:00.600
um that this book just brings a lot of perspective and insight that I think is so valuable when it comes to shame.
1213
00:42:00.610 --> 00:42:04.989
So thank you for writing the book and I got a free one.
1214
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:06.469
So that's really cool.
1215
00:42:08.300 --> 00:42:09.409
But if you were,
1216
00:42:09.419 --> 00:42:11.189
as we close out here,
1217
00:42:12.489 --> 00:42:15.350
if you were to just leave something with my listeners,
1218
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:15.550
like,
1219
00:42:15.560 --> 00:42:20.909
what do you hope people will take away from this book or what?
1220
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:22.169
Like,
1221
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:22.409
yeah,
1222
00:42:22.419 --> 00:42:23.239
what do you,
1223
00:42:23.379 --> 00:42:24.860
what do you hope from this?
1224
00:42:25.050 --> 00:42:25.379
Yeah.
1225
00:42:25.790 --> 00:42:25.919
Well,
1226
00:42:25.929 --> 00:42:27.300
I dedicate the book to my,
1227
00:42:27.310 --> 00:42:31.000
my Children and in on that dedication page,
1228
00:42:31.010 --> 00:42:34.830
I just say to my Children know this one thing,
1229
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:37.439
God was never disappointed in you.
1230
00:42:37.449 --> 00:42:43.050
Like if there's any message I will go to the mat about in this doctrine in this gospel,
1231
00:42:43.459 --> 00:42:44.370
God was never,
1232
00:42:44.379 --> 00:42:45.000
not once,
1233
00:42:45.010 --> 00:42:46.370
ever disappointed in you.
1234
00:42:46.649 --> 00:42:49.459
And the moment you feel that disappointment,
1235
00:42:49.580 --> 00:42:50.669
you can remind yourself,
1236
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:52.899
this is a message coming from the enemy.
1237
00:42:53.169 --> 00:42:54.129
He has never,
1238
00:42:54.139 --> 00:42:55.530
not once been disappointed in you.
1239
00:42:55.540 --> 00:42:57.689
He's always been your cheerleader,
1240
00:42:57.850 --> 00:43:00.399
always been cheering you on encouraging you.
1241
00:43:01.080 --> 00:43:03.260
And as many times as it takes,
1242
00:43:03.270 --> 00:43:04.370
it's so beautiful.
1243
00:43:04.379 --> 00:43:05.770
As many times as it take.
1244
00:43:05.939 --> 00:43:07.139
He'll let you try again.
1245
00:43:07.229 --> 00:43:08.189
So just don't quit.
1246
00:43:08.510 --> 00:43:08.889
Yeah.
1247
00:43:09.050 --> 00:43:09.449
Yeah.
1248
00:43:09.590 --> 00:43:11.060
I think that's the invitation,
1249
00:43:11.110 --> 00:43:11.500
right?
1250
00:43:11.510 --> 00:43:12.310
Is just,
1251
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:12.860
don't quit,
1252
00:43:12.870 --> 00:43:15.540
don't give up on yourself and don't give up on God.
1253
00:43:16.659 --> 00:43:16.939
Yeah,
1254
00:43:16.949 --> 00:43:17.520
I love it.
1255
00:43:17.530 --> 00:43:19.199
Thank you so much for coming on today.
1256
00:43:19.709 --> 00:43:20.550
Thanks for the invite.
1257
00:43:20.689 --> 00:43:21.699
It's been a pleasure.
1258
00:43:22.540 --> 00:43:26.080
Thank you for tuning in to the Seasons of Joy podcast.
1259
00:43:26.090 --> 00:43:27.739
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
1260
00:43:27.959 --> 00:43:29.459
And if you like what you heard,
1261
00:43:29.469 --> 00:43:30.770
don't forget to subscribe,
1262
00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:33.790
leave a review and share with your friends and family.
1263
00:43:33.949 --> 00:43:36.840
If you want to learn more about me or how to work with me,
1264
00:43:36.850 --> 00:43:42.959
just visit my website WW dot season coaching.com and have a joyful week.
